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  1. Zidane

    Zidane

    Local Time:
    3:38 AM
    I can compromise on having an option to pick a plugin and the group up all plugins that use the plugin you chose as a dependency but not listed as "core-game".
  2. Roger

    Roger

    Local Time:
    11:38 AM
    Just wait for my new massive post, I've taken all of this into consideration and it's gotten massively simpler :p
    2 pages, that's it
  3. Zidane

    Zidane

    Local Time:
    3:38 AM
    Looking forward to it.

    Even if this looks like a testy debate, I firmly believe that discussions like this bring about great compromises that will be the defining factor of our client.
  4. Isocadia

    Isocadia

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    I'm just gonna write what I think is best from the point of view of a non-dev, since I am one :p

    Anyway, Spout advertises with the ability to not only make Vanilla, but any other voxel game you want. This gives me the impression that it is possible to have a spout based Wolvenstein, Starcraft, Skyrim and Vanilla. All voxel based, and each being able to run plugins.
    The next part is me downloading these "core-games" and trying to play them. What I DON'T want happening, is a list of Wolvenstein, Minecraft, Starcraft, Skyrim, Skyrim-mod1, Skyrim-mod2. Starcraft-mod1 etc.

    I want, in the main menu, to be able to select kinda in this manner:

    Skyrim - Starcraft - Wolvenstein - Vanilla

    And, if for example I click on Minecraft, only then will I get the plugins which depend on Vanilla. Only after I click on skyrim, do I want to see the pludins made for Skyrim. It should be possible for plugins to work with multiple "core-games", but this is a difference that should be made. You would start with a standard spout menu, but once I select Skyrim, I get a custom, made by the plugin Skyrim, screen.

    It's kinda like steam does now, you have games and you have mods. Even though for spout, they are all the same, there IS a difference to the end user, because for the end user, "games" build with spout are something completely different than a plugin made for a "game" with spout.

    Please note that this is for singleplayer, and maybe for the average server setup ( basicly opening your singleplayer world to connections ). Real multiplayer only server should be able to have multiple "core-games" running at once and have everything basicly working as it currently does with plugins like Multiverse, just keep everything in a nice config file.
  5. abclive

    abclive

    Local Time:
    10:38 AM
    Hi there,​
    There are my 3 ideas for the loading screen :​
    spout loading mp.png

    spout loading sp.png
    spout loading 2.png
    teeth, TheiKing, GrimNights and 11 others like this.
  6. Wulfspider

    Wulfspider

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    Yes, obviously plugins that are not categorized as a game would not be in the same location and displayed the same.
  7. Roger

    Roger

    Local Time:
    11:38 AM
    wasn't to clear up until now :p, the whole discussion kind of based on that...
  8. Roger

    Roger

    Local Time:
    11:38 AM
    Really nice... And you could have a nice animation with always having that bar in the middle moving up and down in the menus and later to that loading bar. Maybe make the loading bar be made out of liquid instead...
  9. Windwaker

    Windwaker

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    So there will be some kind of differentiation between "games" and plugins. Olloth seemed to have contrary thoughts on that.
  10. Wulfspider

    Wulfspider

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    It's all a category. All Olloth was saying, is that they are still plugins, but categorized as games. I was saying that you wouldn't see game plugins and regular plugins all in the same place, as in you wouldn't see a plugin that wasn't a "game" in the same area where an economy plugin was.
  11. Windwaker

    Windwaker

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    Okay, so nothing actually mechanically; just aesthetics. Good.
  12. Roger

    Roger

    Local Time:
    11:38 AM
    So there'll be a flag in the plugin.yml or how were you planing on differentiating?
  13. Wulfspider

    Wulfspider

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    Categories, just like every other plugin. There isn't anything physically different about them.
  14. Roger

    Roger

    Local Time:
    11:38 AM
    so it'd be handled by reservoir?
  15. Wulfspider

    Wulfspider

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    That's the plan.
  16. Olloth

    Olloth

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    That's what I said all along. Categories in the plugin browser. Everyone ran with it out of control like it's some affront to nature that it's in a plugin browser and still called a plugin under a category like "Game" or "GUI"
    Windwaker likes this.
  17. Windwaker

    Windwaker

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    Everyone meaning...
  18. Isocadia

    Isocadia

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    I don't exactly know how reservoir is going to work, but even in split category's there should still be a bigger difference client side. But I still think that there's gotta be a big difference between a "mod" plugin and a "game" plugin. Plugin that are actual games should be put at the start of the spout launcher. You launch Spout, you select a game, and then you get to log in to that game server ( because people might want to go and sell their spout games without having to be dependend on Minecraft accounts ). After you logged in, you will be prompted with a menu created by that plugin, you start a single player game in a menu also created by that game and when creating a new world you see only the plugins that work with that "game".

    If you were to limit a "core-game" to small modifications to the main menu screen, and really make it equal to plugin selection where it's a plugin that you choose for your single player world, then I think that really trying to make a game on the spout platform is gonna be alot less attractive, because I would get the feeling that Spout was still made for one purpose and that the option of other "games" was just something that you guys saw was able along the way.

    In short, if you make a "core-game", it needs to be on a selection screen before the login, so you can login to the game server of that particular game, and the game should have complete control over the menu's once you leave the original spout menu's.
  19. Wulfspider

    Wulfspider

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    Spout has nothing to do with Minecraft. This has been stated over and over. The only part of the new projects that is related, is Vanilla. We've mentioned that if users do have to authenticate with it, that it would likely be when connecting to a server that is running Vanilla or Minecraft.

    The point of the Spout platform is that you can make any game, or extend any game. It's a game engine. The main menu needs to be a portal for those "game" plugins as well as accessing other plugins that add onto those. Vanilla is simply an example plugin that runs on the Spout platform. We are not making a single plugin as the main menu, Spout's menu will be the main menu and a gateway to others.

    Think of the new Spout as sort of like Steam. The main menu and sub-menus will be more of a delivery system and portal to start, browse, and download new games plugins or other plugins. Steam isn't going to let those games cripple and deny users access to other games. As we've said before as well, if a developer truly wants to make their own standalone game without sharing space, they could simply fork the project and customize it to their needs.
  20. Isocadia

    Isocadia

    Local Time:
    4:38 AM
    I understand that, what I was trying to make clear is that if the spout launcher doesn't give each "core-game" plugin a own menu/tile on startup, but lists it in a list of other plugins, then it would look like spout is more oriented towards modding vanilla than to actually adding different games. What I think should happen, and from your post I thought wasn't going to happen, is that the spout launcher is only the core-game selector. Compared to steam, Spout provides the library side bar with all installed plugins, but in the center square, a plugin should be able to change whatever he wants. Add his own buttons, his own set of options, his own newsfeed and ofcourse their own plugin list. Though the list will probably be provided by reservoir, if I understand correctly, the button to go to that plugin list should be placed by the core-game creator.

    I'm starting to think that we all are thinking about roughly the same, but everybody is misinterpreting all the others :p

    Edit: A small example I just thought about. What if someone makes a voxelgame with a prebuild world, but instead has characters. The core-game should be able to modify the menu in such a way that it becomes a character selection screen, and not a world selection screen.
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